Miriam Grossman MD is a special guest on The Paul Leslie Hour!
Are you here? We want to warmly welcome you to The Paul Leslie Hour, a show that helps people tell their stories and seeks the truth. Now in our 19th year.
On this episode your host Paul Edward Leslie will speak with Miriam Grossman MD. She is a child, adolescent and adult psychiatrist. Dr. Grossman is a renowned public speaker and the author of Lost in Trans Nation: A Child Psychiatrists’ Guide Out of Madness from Skyhorse Publishing.
Nationally syndicated radio talk show host and bestselling author Dennis Prager said this about Grossman’s book Lost in Trans Nation: “We may finally have the book that begins our exit from a madness in which America finds itself. That madness is the belief that men can become women and women can become men.”
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In this episode, I interview Dr. Miriam Grossman, MD, author of “Lost in Trans Nation: A Child Psychiatrist’s Guide Out of Madness.” We discuss the impact of transgenderism on families and children, and Dr. Grossman provides practical advice for parents to protect their children from gender ideology in schools. She also questions the influence of controversial figures like John Money and Alfred Kinsey. This conversation emphasizes the importance of preserving a child’s true identity.
The Official Transcript
Introduction: Dr. Miriam Grossman, MD
[1:58] Hello, Dr. Grossman.
Hello, are you Paul?
I am indeed Paul.
Hello.
What a pleasure to talk to you.
Thank you.
Well, how are you doing? You’re up in the northeast, right?
Oh, I try not to say where I am.
I understand completely. I try to do a bit of the same myself. Well, ladies and gentlemen, it’s such a pleasure to welcome our special guest, Dr. Miriam Grossman, MD. I have been wanting to talk to her for a long time. Ever since I saw her on a documentary, a lot of you all probably saw, What is a Woman? And then I had the great pleasure of reading a book and I want to recommend this book very much. I think it’s very much a book for our times and it answered a lot of questions that I had about what’s going on. The book, Lost in Trans Nation, a Child Psychiatrist’s Guide out of the Madness and madness seems like a very accurate term. Thank you so much for joining us.
Well, thank you so much for having me on, Paul, I really do appreciate it.
The Impact of Gender Issues in Media
It’s an honor to have you. You know, this is something that affects everybody today. I don’t think you can turn the channel on the television. [3:26] It’s on the radio, it just seems like it’s the biggest topic, no exaggeration. What got the spark that got this book going for you?
[3:40] Well, what happened is that uh, I don’t know if you mentioned i’m a child and adolescent psychiatrist. So i’m a medical doctor, And, I began seeing kids who have distress about being boys, or girls a number of years ago along with their parents.
[4:00] And to be honest Paul I heard so much and I saw so much that I really I had to write this book. The book is a guide. A practical guide. It’s not for professionals. You don’t need a PhD to read this book. It’s a practical guide for parents on how to protect their families against the contagion of Transgenderism that is we are currently in the midst of. It’s a social contagion. And that’s why the numbers are skyrocketing.
The Shift in Public Awareness of Transgenderism
[4:40] The numbers of kids in the past five to 10 years has gone up about 5,000%.
Wow.
So that is why in the past we didn’t really hear about this so much. We may have heard occasionally about, you know, a middle-aged man, a cross-dresser, who after having their families decide to live the rest of their lives presenting as a woman. We may have heard of those rare individuals, but, this is now no longer the case. This is a whole different ballgame.
[5:20] And what I’ve learned from seeing these families and talking to hundreds of parents, is that no family is immune. It doesn’t matter where you live. You can live in the Bay Area. You can live in Salt Lake City.
[5:37] It doesn’t matter. No one is immune because it’s something that is being, like you said, not only talked about so much, but the kids are being indoctrinated to believe that there’s such a thing as being born in the wrong body. There is no such thing. There is no medical or scientific basis for that whatsoever.
They’re being told that it’s possible. They’re being told that sometimes the adults make a mistake when they quote unquote “assign” somebody to be male or female. Again, that’s a manipulation of language. There’s no assignment going on. We are mammals. Mammals are either males or females. It’s all really just basic biology. But kids are being led into this world of despair and confusion, where they don’t know who they are on the most basic, core level of their humanity. They don’t, if you can imagine, not knowing if you are male, female, both, neither, or any one of endless possibilities.
Activists in Schools: Parents Must be Vigilant and Informed
[6:59] So we have a very dire situation, but I’m telling parents that there’s a lot that they can do about, it to protect their families, to inoculate their children. And since school is starting now.
[7:15] I’m very focused on advising parents what they can do regarding their schools.
And the number one thing I say is that unfortunately you cannot automatically trust your school. It makes me sad to say this, but we have to live in reality and the reality is that there are activists in our schools and they are aggressively pushing this belief system. I call it a belief system, transgenderism, again because it’s more like a religion than anything else. It has irrational beliefs, and it is being foisted on young kids who don’t know any better, and they’re under a lot of social pressure to go along with it.
So what I’m telling parents is this. Number one, before school starts, or maybe school has started already, it doesn’t matter, I want you to read the chapter in my book that is specifically about schools so that you won’t be caught blindsided like so many parents have told me that they were just blindsided by all of this when their kid comes home one day and announces, “mom, dad, I’m not your son on the dot.”
[8:38] Um, so they need to read that chapter. I know everyone’s really busy, Paul, but you have to save your family from this catastrophe. You can go onto Amazon and get, either for free, some people will get it for free, or I don’t know, $15 maybe, and you can download an audio version of my book that I narrated myself, and you can go straight to that chapter on schools.
There’s also an appendix written by attorneys that will explain your rights. Parents have constitutional rights to direct the education of their children.
[9:24] And I want parents to download a form that also written by attorneys.
You can download it on my website, MiriamGrossmanMD.com, you download that form, that is a form that puts your school on notice.
You are telling the school that you do not want your child exposed to gender ideology in the classroom, in any kind of assembly or video or club that your child may want to join. You do not give your permission for any of that. You do not give your permission for a different name or pronouns to be used at school for your child if they ask. And you certainly don’t give your permission for your child to use the opposite sex bathroom. [10:15] I want parents to understand that the schools are doing this behind the parents’ backs. They are doing what’s called a social transition of the child.
If the child asks for the parents not to be informed, they will not tell you.
Protecting Your Family from Gender Identity Issues
[10:37] Now, you do not want this to happen to your family. You do not wanna discover that your teenage daughter is changing her clothes in the boys’ locker room.
I’m sorry to even have to be saying this to people, but this is the world we live in.
So two things, read that chapter. And when you go to Amazon, by the way, There are a lot of bogus books up there that are, that are, that are, um. [11:07] You know pretending to me to be my book and to trick you into buying it and when it’s delivered you’ll see that it has blank pages or it has it’s it’s bogus so please be careful buy the right book.
[11:22] You can reach the correct book by going again to my website miriamgrossmanmd.com the link is right there. You can get the audio version. It’ll take 45 minutes and you will be so much better informed.
[11:40] About this issue before sending your kid to school. And then the other thing is to download that form. Now of course the entire book is mandatory reading because you need to know a lot more than just the schools. You need to know where all these ideas come from. The idea of being born in the wrong body, the idea that we should be listening to kids and putting them into the driver’s seat, which is what your pediatrician is probably going to do, it’s what your psychotherapist is probably going to do if she or he is a gender-affirming therapist.
Educating Parents on Gender Identity Issues
[12:16] So parents really need to get educated, and the best thing is that you can inoculate your family, I believe, against this.
From an early age, you start to present the biological truths that the book will tell you about being male or female, only two choices. We are mammals. Mammals are sexually dimorphic, male or female, not from birth, from the moment of conception. The egg and the sperm unite. We’ve got either a girl or a boy. And that’s a permanent.
[12:57] Situation, and that cannot be changed, you can try and change it with medications that you take your whole life, with operations that are disfiguring and painful and may cause you to be sterile for your whole life. And you may even succeed at looking like a genuine woman or man, but this is a synthetic persona.
Right.
And when you deny biology, you pay a price.
[13:39] I wanna encourage everybody out there to get the book. And as you said, it’s available in a few formats, but you wanna be sure and make sure it’s the actual book.
You can get a paper copy. I have a Kindle version. My wife and I, although we don’t have children, my wife said, I believe so strongly in this. Even though you got a review copy, I want to get a copy for the house because it’s something that even if you don’t have children, this is affecting our whole society. I just want to drive that point home.
At what point did you realize that this gender identity movement or madness, whatever you want to call it, had just exploded?
Gender Dysphoria: A Rare Psychiatric Disorder
[14:28] Well, you see, I discovered this actually 15 years ago when I was studying sex education, which is before it was on most people’s radar.
But, you know, we became aware of this explosion of cases, I would say five to eight years ago. Gender dysphoria, which is an intense discomfort with your sex body, used to be an extremely rare, extremely rare psychiatric disorder. So something definitely changed. And what changed is the culture.
And what changed is the emphasis that a lot of LGBT organizations began to place on transgenderism, after 2015, when the definition of marriage was changed.
[15:30] So at that time, there was a new focus on this new population.
And what we know is that the kids that are currently making up this tsunami of cases of gender dysphoria are not like the previous population that we knew about.
We always knew about young boys who were young, like before puberty.
They might have been three or four, and they were insisting that they’re girls.
We also knew about a rare cases of middle-aged men who were heterosexual, but enjoyed cross-dressing.
And at some point in middle age, after they had families, typically, they would decide they would like to spend the rest of their lives living as women.
Those were essentially the two populations that we knew about in psychiatry.
Now, what we have right now going on, Paul, is a completely different demographic.
New Demographic: Teenage Girls
[16:33] And that is teenagers who are mostly girls.
[16:40] And they are, there’s still a lot of boys, but they are a majority are girls.
And they are girls who never before expressed any issue with being girls. So it’s something that happens rapidly. And these girls, most of them have a lot, of comorbid psychiatric disorders. They might be on the autism spectrum. They have anxiety, depression, self-harming behaviors. They may have a history of trauma, of being sexually assaulted. So it’s a completely new population.
Now, the big problem is that instead of giving these kids the psychotherapy that they need, Because our institutions, medical, legal, government, educational, have been hijacked by this agenda, we are now telling these kids and their parents that there’s only one solution.
[17:42] There’s only one path and that is to medicalize the child from an early age and prevent their normal puberties and give them experimental medical and surgical interventions that will have lifelong consequences. And that’s where we’re at now in this country and in Canada.
In other countries, it’s not being done this way. Sweden, Norway, Finland, Denmark, and England, are all treating these kids with psychotherapy and the medical interventions and surgical interventions in minors have essentially been banned.
The Hidden Truth: What Parents Aren’t Told about Gender Transition
[18:32] So in my book, I am explaining what parents are not gonna hear from their pediatrician, and not gonna hear at school or online or on CNN or from Admiral Dr. Rachel Levine, you see.
Right.
Because all of those sources will not give parents, the accurate up-to-date reality, which is that this is a huge international debate, how to help these kids.
And that the U.S. and Canada are outliers at this time. They are outliers.
And the other countries are looking at us and saying, what are you doing? What are you doing to your children? Why are you doing this? We have insufficient evidence that this is gonna help your kids.
They need psychotherapy. They don’t need their puberties blocked. The boys do not need to grow breasts. The boys, the girls do not need to have their voices lowered and grow a beard.
Astonishing Roots: John Money and Alfred Kinsey
[19:37] Isn’t it just astonishing that we even have to have this conversation?
It’s very astonishing. And one of the things in the book that I thought was so interesting is sometimes when you go to the root of something and you see that the root is so weak or, from a place that you can’t trust. We meet this person in history, John Money, and I encourage everybody to get the book and find out about him, and also Kinsey. And here are two people, and you can’t help but wonder why does the world, especially the academic world, honor them? They prop them up. Do you have any guess as to why these people who a lot of what they, you know, first of all, the things they were involved with were so bad, but also their, theories didn’t pan out. Why do they still continue to be respected?
Paul, that question has been plaguing me for 15 years. [20:43] You know, I can only look at it in spiritual terms. That sometimes we live through periods of darkness, and this is one of those times, and these ideas that have been brought to us by individuals such as Alfred Kinsey and John Money, who were degenerate, immoral men, who wanted first and foremost to rid society of any sort of Judeo-Christian values, and they have largely succeeded.
That’s the only way that I can make sense of it because otherwise it really doesn’t make much sense. but Paul.
Lost in Trans Nation: A Psychiatrist’s Guide Out of the Madness
[21:37]The book is Lost in Trans Nation, a Child Psychiatrist Guide Out of the Madness.
And I’m very, very pleased to also say that the foreword was written by Dr. Jordan Peterson.
I’m so grateful to Dr. Peterson. We also did a few months ago, a wonderful podcast in which I focused on the devastation, of the parents of these kids who get wrapped up in this cult-like.
[22:11] You know, gender world and how it destroys parents and families.
The Damaging Effect of Perpetuating Lies in Identity
There’s something I wanted to, I thought this would be a good closing question, something that struck me very early on in the book. And you said, calling yourself a woman when you’re a man at the most basic level is a lie, damaging to the soul.
And I’ve thought about this a lot because there have been times, like for example, I interviewed an artist who said, I want you to refer to me as this, something I knew not to be true. But I thought really early on in the book, you’re getting at something that is so critical.
[22:55] It’s, you know, getting to the truth of a matter. So I’m hoping you can just, in closing here, tell us what damaging effect does it have on someone to continue to tell themselves a lie and ask others to perpetuate a lie?
[23:16] Wow. What you’re referring to is my decision that I write about early in the book to not use the pronouns for transgender-identified individuals and the decision that I made, which was not an easy decision, to just not use the pronouns. And I said that lying to oneself is bad for for the soul?
Well, you know, we’re getting outside of my psychiatric, you know, my training here. But I would say to people that all of us have a soul and that soul is, it comes from God.
God is ultimate truth. And so, [24:13] since our soul comes from God, when we deny that, that is destructive to the most inner part of us.
Living a Lie: The Destructive Effects of Denial
[24:27] And you know, when we think about, for example, the Soviet Union and life under communism, and sometimes, you know, you could see photographs or videos of the people that were living there and they were forced to live a lie, day in and day out, year in and year out. And there.
[24:48] Was a kind of emptiness in their eyes, you know? Just kind of an emptiness, like as if their soul had been extinguished. And again, you know, I’m not speaking as a psychiatrist here, this is me just speaking as me. I think that that’s what it does to us. It’s very, very dangerous, especially to children, for them to be in schools where one of their friends may come back from summer vacation and be presenting as the opposite sex.
And your child has known this other child for years as a boy. And now all of a sudden, from one day to the next, they have to call this child by a girl’s name, girl’s pronouns, and think of this person as a child. And this is coming from the school, the authorities in the school. These are the authorities telling the child that they must do this because this is what respect is and this is what inclusion is. And you can’t help but think, you know, what happens to a child when they’re forced to do that, when they’re forced to deny what their eyes tell them.
[26:11] What else are they going to deny in terms of the reality of their lives?
You’re basically telling the child to not live in reality, that their reality is false and that somebody else can impose a different reality on them. This is just all really scary, like Matrix kind of stuff.
[26:38] Yeah. Well, Dr. Grossman, my admiration and appreciation for this book, and again, I want to encourage everybody out there, please pick it up, not only because it informs, but there, were many times I found myself unexpectedly touched by it. Thank you so much for sharing, and thank you for writing such an important book that for our times is just so, so crucial.
It’s about protecting families, protecting children and families.
Thank you so much, Paul.
Thank you, Dr. Grossman.
MiriamGrossmanMD.com
Yes.
All right. Until next time, God bless.
Thank you.
